Posts by Sea Breeze

34

Pfizer becomes first Covid vaccine to gain full FDA approval

by PaddyTheBaddy in

great news.. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58309254.

pfizer's two-dose covid-19 vaccine has received full approval from the us food and drug administration (fda) - the first jab to be licensed in the nation.. .

the vaccine had initially been given emergency use authorisation.

Sea Breeze

Expert says 'FDA-approved' Pfizer shot is NOT what people have been getting

17

What JWs don't know they believe

by StephaneLaliberte in

in a post this morning, i suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the jws don't really know too well.

the idea is that you can say these things, other jws will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

the key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy.

Sea Breeze

I'd like to solve the puzzle, Pat

I-T-S-A-C-U-L-T

38

New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

by Sea Breeze in

5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.

On the bottom of the original post on the first page of this thread, there is a link to a secret recording where this information is presented to a JW elder on a return visit starting at time marker 15:15.

It all really comes alive when presented in the context of a real conversation with a JW elder. I would have been devastated if I had been that JW. Can't wait for part 2 to be released to see how the encounter ends up..... probably next Sunday.

38

New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

by Sea Breeze in

5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.

Sea Breeze

Jeffo,

Dr. Habermas' lecture at the University of California Santa Barbara outlines the consensus of modern scholarship (including skeptic) today on many facts surrounding Jesus and the gospel accounts, which scholars trace to just months, or even weeks after being crucified.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOW7k3hQ-vE&ab_channel=FallenEmbers

Roman governor Pliny the Younger (A.D 111-115): Roman governor Pliny the Younger mentioned in a letter to Emperor Trajan that early Christians would “sing hymns to Christ as to a god.” (Latin, carmenque christo quasi deo; Pliny, Epistles 10.96.7) “…on a stated day they had been accustomed to meet before daybreak and to recite a hymn among themselves to Christ, as though he were a god

Clearly, early Christians thought that the creator had come down from heaven.

BTTT - I used to be a regular pioneer and enjoyed defending WT doctrines with people I met at the doors. I thought I was pretty effective. But, looking back - if someone had presented me with all these scriptures as a list at one time, it would have really shocked the Gibbering Body out of me!

38

New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

by Sea Breeze in

5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.

Sea Breeze

Thanks for the completed list Vanderhoven7

The Traditional Passages Showing Christ's Deity are probably worth posting on this thread as well: showing that, like the Father, Jesus is...

- Called God: John 1:1 with v. 14; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1; Luke 1:16-17
- From Everlasting: Ps. 90:2 with Micah 5:2
- Receiving worship: Mat. 2:11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:38; Heb. 1:6 (etc., 10x) with Ex. 34:14; Acts 10:25-26 & Rev. 19:10
- Forgiving/Delegating Power to Forgive: Mat. 6:9, 12 with Jn. 20:23; Luke 5:20; Mark 2:5-11 & 1 Jn. 1:7-9
- Omniscient: John 10:15; 2:24-25 21:17
- Omnipresent: Ps. 139:7-10 with Mat. 18:20 & 28:20
- Omnipotent: Rev. 1:8 with 11-13, 17; 2:8; 5:11-6:1, 21:22-23; & 22:13
- Immutable: Mal. 3:6 with Hebrews 13:8
- The exact equivalent
in nature: Heb. 1:3; Phil 2:6 doesn't rob the Father to see Christ as His equal
in fullness: Col. 2:9 (in Christ "dwells all the fullness of the Godhead")
in glory: Isa. 45:25 with Gal. 6:14 and John 1:14; etc.
to whom every knee shalll bow: Isa. 45:23 with Phil. 2:10
to whom every tongue shall confess: Isa. 45:23 with Phil. 2:11 and Rom. 14:10-11
as the Almighty: Rev. 1:8 with 11-13, 17; 2:8; 5:11-6:1, 21:22-23; & 22:13
as Creator: Isa. 45:5-7, 18 with John 1:3 and Col. 1:16-17
as Savior: Isa. 45:21 and Luke 1:47 with Titus 3:6; 2:13; 2 Pet. 1:11; 1 John 4:14
as searcher of hearts: Ps. 139:23-24 with John 2:24-25 & Rev. 2:18-19, 23
as possessor of the everlasting kingdom: Dan. 7:13-14
as King of Kings: Rev. 19:16 with Dan. 2:47 and Isa. 33:22
as Lawgiver: James 4:12
as Judge: Ps. 9:7-8; 50:6 & 75:7; Isa. 33:22; 66:16; Heb. 12:23 with John 5:22; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Rom. 2:16; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1, 8
as Jehovah: Isa. 40:3 with Mat. 3:3; and Isa. 8:13-14 with 1 Pet. 2:7-8; Mat. 21:42; Mk. 12:10.

38

New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

by Sea Breeze in

5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.

Sea Breeze

What's unclear about "the father is greater than I"?

UBERWitless, that's a socalled "proof scripture" that the WT uses.

Nothing unclear about that verse you cited. Also perfectly clear is that Jesus possesses "all power in heaven and earth" - Mt. 28: 18

Also, equally clear is that Jesus said he would resurrect himself while he was dead. - John 10:18

The problem is that the fundamental assumption of the WT is materialism [sort of]. They deny that personhood is attributed to someone's spirit or soul in the bible. Then, they use this false assumption to harp on some scriptures while denying others.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. - 1 Thess. 5: 23

Since we are Tri--Partite beings with personhood attributed to each, according to many scriptural proofs, it is easy to see where Jesus at times spoke from his flesh as the son of Mary, and at other times from his spirit [the very essence of God] as the son of God.

Jesus referred to himself as both the son of God and the son of man. He was both - indivisible essence of God in spirit joined to a fully functioning physical human body.

Bottom line is that if the bible teaches that Jesus was both God and man, that should be the official Christian position, regardless of whether or not we accept it or if we fully understand it.

38

New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

by Sea Breeze in

5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.

Sea Breeze

Imagine a prophet or an angel talking like Jesus did:

Christ's Self-focus:

"Follow Me" 19x Mt. 4:19; 8:22; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Mk. 1:17; 2:14; 8:34; 10:21; Lk. 5:27; 9:59; 18:22; Jn. 1:43; 8:12; 10:27; 12:26; 13:36; 21:19, 22
Pray and act "in My name" 18x Mt. 7:22; 18:5; 18:20; [24:5]; Mk. 9:37, 39, 41; [13:6]; Lk. 9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; Jn. 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:23-24, 26; Acts 9:15
"the Holy Spirit" comes "in My name" Jn. 14:26
"for My name's sake" leave family and property Mt. 19:29; or even be killed 5x Mt. 24:9; [Lk. 21:12, 17;] Jn. 15:21; Acts 9:16
Believe in the "name of the… Son" and "in the Son" 3x Jn. 3:18, 36; 9:35 and "in Him [Jesus]" 4x Jn. 3:18; 6:29, 40; 8:31
"believe in Me" 14x Mt. 18:6; Mk. 9:42; Jn. 3:15-16, 18; 6:35, 47; 7:38; 11:25, 26; 12:44, 46; 14:1, 12; 16:8; 17:20
You "are sanctified by faith in Me" Acts 26:18
Live "in Me" Jn. 11:26
"come after Me" Mk. 8:34; Lk. 14:27
Abide "in Me" Jn. 15:2, 4:5, 7 "abide in Me" or else Jn. 15:6 "abide in My love" Jn. 15:9-10
"where two or three are gathered" Jesus is "there in the midst of them" Mt. 18:20
So too: "I [Jesus, will abide] in you" Jn. 15:4-5
"know that I am He" Jn. 8:28 or "if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins" Jn. 8:24
Do things "for My sake" Mt. 10:22, 39; even lose your life "for My sake" 4x Mt. 16:25; Mk. 8:35; 10:29; Lk. 6:22
"I never knew you, depart from Me" Mt. 7:23
"I am willing; be cleansed" Mt. 8:3; Mk.. 1:41
"confess Me" Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8
Do not deny "Me" 7x Mt. 10:33; 26:34; Mk. 14:30, 72; Lk. 12:9; 22:34; Jn. 13:38
Do not be "ashamed of Me" Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words"
"love Me" 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23-24, 28
Do not reject "Me" Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48
"He who is not with Me is against Me" Lk. 11:23
Love Me "more than" your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26]

Bob Enyart skillfully presents this material
in a secretly recorded meeting with a Jehovah's Witness Elder on a return visit.

9

9 Year Old Used Basic Logic And Came To An "Apostate" Conclusion

by pistolpete in

related experience;.

basically what happened is my mom was studying with my 9 year old sibling and they were talking about the paradise.

my sibling then proceeded to ask, in a clearly joking way, "what if jehovah was tricking us and we don't go to paradise?

Sea Breeze

I came to an apostate conclusion at age 13 in 1976 when I found myself still alive in one piece and my family pretended like no one expected the end to come the year before.

It was very rough teen years after that..... when I literally didn't believe in anything.

Check out all the doom & gloom:

17

How would you respond?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

if you tell a jw that he or she is in a cult and they asked you why do you say that?

how would you respond?.

Sea Breeze

I agree Sea Breeze that there are probably many scriptures one can use to demonstrate Watchtower doesn't have the truth as taught in the Bible.

True. But, this is the only scripture that states twice that if a person preaches a different message than what the apostles preached they are cursed of God. The GB is proud of all their changing doctrines and calls them : adjustments, increased understandings, new light etc.

Gal. 1: 8:9 is a direct assault on their idolatry.... no doctrines, no arguing, no subjective viewpoints - just replacing lies with truth.

17

How would you respond?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

if you tell a jw that he or she is in a cult and they asked you why do you say that?

how would you respond?.

Sea Breeze

Easy - Galatians 1: 8-9

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

It's easy to get JW's to admit that the apostles did not teach a two-tier salvation: one with the new covenant and one without the new covenant. Once they admit this, simply read the above scripture.